[examplotron] Re: Choice Compositor?

From: Renaud Waldura <renaud+xml@waldura.com>
Date: Fri Feb 03 2006 - 18:46:30 UTC

Thank you Eric for your answer.
I'm going to investigate Schematron further.

>> and by far the best (least bad) was RNC.

The name's actually RNV, I got it wrong.
It's at http://www.davidashen.net/rnv.html

It's a C program, looking for a new maintainer (ie. not actively
maintained). Too bad, the error messages suck less.

--Renaud

----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric van der Vlist" <vdv@dyomedea.com>
To: <examplotron@xmlschemata.org>
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 2:03 AM
Subject: [examplotron] Re: Choice Compositor?

> Hi,
> Le vendredi 27 janvier 2006 à 10:01 -0800, Renaud Waldura a écrit :
>> Sorry it's taken me so long to respond to this.
>>
>> The idea of having a schema and validating against it is slowly getting
>> some
>> traction in my workplace. But as I've mentioned, I can't be asking people
>> to
>> learn a new language just for this purpose.
>
> :-) ...
>
>> Basically, either I make it super easy to use, or I'm going to have to do
>> it
>> myself, which isn't really acceptable either, for practical reasons.
>> (This
>> isn't the primary focus of my job, and having people come to me to edit
>> the
>> schema defeats the purpose.)
>>
>> Enters Examplotron: if 80% of the schema validation can be done in
>> "iconic"
>> style, and there remains 20% I have to help out with, that's a lot more
>> palatable to everyone. I've gotten a good handle on how to work with
>> Examplotron, but there remains some specific use-cases not covered. Eg.
>> this
>> choice compositor.
>>
>>
>> > Now, that doesn't seem very "iconic" and we're transforming Examplotron
>> > into a "classical" schema language such as RELAX NG.
>> > Generally speaking, that would be real easy to accept RNG elements in
>> > Examplotron... But is it really a good solution?
>>
>> Maybe it is. Examplotron is already sort of a pre-processor to RNG
>> anyway.
>> Maybe there's 80% iconic, 15% that requires "eg:*" stuff, and 5% that
>> requires RELAX to be done right. I like the way Schematron rules can be
>> embedded, it's sort of the same idea.
>
> Yes, you can see it that way.
>
> Any other comments about adding a "choice" element?
>
>>
>> Oh, another question. I've validated the generated Relax schema using
>> different open source validators I've come across, and the results were
>> very
>> disappointing, abysmal even. I mean, I get better messages out of my C
>> compiler!
>
> Yes, errors generated by validators are most of the time very hard to
> understand for end users.
>
> The exceptions are for schema languages such as Schematron that let you
> define your own error messages but, unfortunately, grammar based schema
> languages do not let you do so.
>
>> I understand this isn't Examplotron's fault... Are there any validators
>> out
>> there that make an effort at being user-friendly?
>>
>> I've tried the following validators:
>> Jing
>> SVM, the Sun thing
>> libxml
>> Tenuto
>> RNC
>>
>> and by far the best (least bad) was RNC.
>
> That's something to take into account when you chose a processor, but,
> unfortunately, I haven't much to add to what you've written!
>
> Eric
>
>>
>> --Renaud
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> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Eric van der Vlist http://xmlfr.org http://dyomedea.com
> (ISO) RELAX NG ISBN:0-596-00421-4 http://oreilly.com/catalog/relax
> (W3C) XML Schema ISBN:0-596-00252-1 http://oreilly.com/catalog/xmlschema
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Received on Fri Feb 3 19:46:34 2006

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